miirsm grad iosh

See the complete profile on LinkedIn and discover parag’s connections and jobs at similar companies. Do you think they are less competent than you are. If you & your employer are happy with what you have (or do not have) who are we to judge, as long as the decisions & advice given are justified. If someone 'doesn’t want to', that’s fine. Posted By Robert. The last certificate date for the present NVQ 5 (3654-05) is 19/12/2019 Please note that IOSH will accept learners from all Awarding Bodies enrolled on the old Level 5 Diploma in Occupational Health and Safety Practice up to the certification cut-off date of 31st August 2019. etc etc. FWIW IOSH has 'branded' itself so well that you need the 'badge' to progress. عرض الملف الشخصي الكامل على LinkedIn واستكشف زملاء khaleeluddin والوظائف في الشركات المشابهة Regarding comments of no commitment having completed a 2 week course (NGC), I found that interesting, if self funded, the person most likely either used up holiday entitlement or lost pay (as was the case of 3 of my fellow students 3.5 years ago). Oh no! They don't make you a better person but they do show a higher level of understanding. IOSH doesn't recognise these beyond my CPD commitments ie they do not count towards CMIOSH. Aren't all engineers the same really? Andy (keeping my quals close to my chest). Mike has 4 jobs listed on their profile. They do of course have the opportunity to check what all those letters mean if they so wish. Grad IOSH (1997) MIIRSM (2016) Alan Ford HSE Professional Construction Consultant MSc, B.Eng., Grad IOSH, MIIRSM. The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them, CMIOSH, GradIOSH, TechIOSH, MIIRSM, AIIRSM etc - does it make a dfifference, YAF.NET © 2003-2020, Yet Another Forum.NET. So yes, the badge does count, how much importance you attach to it is up to you. Posted By Pete48 Everyone has their own specialist areas in which they may be king. Erfahren Sie mehr über die Kontakte von Andrei Savu MScEng Grad IOSH MIIRSM und über Jobs bei ähnlichen Unternehmen. is an open invitation for people to take umbridge at your comment, there are lots of reasons why people do not continue with education i.e. See the complete profile on LinkedIn and discover Raymond’s connections and jobs at similar companies. GRAD-IOSH Certificate NEBOSH General Certificate. In addition to that, try being a father to 2 boys under age of 4 (at the age of 43) don't know if BB knew or not but I didn't please enlighten me. MIIRSM (Member International Institute of Risk and Safety Management) AIIRSM (Associated International Institute of Risk and Safety Management) Full 1st Aid trained First aid at work Certificate (25 June 2010 to 24 June 2013) Res ipsa loquitor. So for £100 a year - I'll stand up and be counted. Do you think they are less competent than you are? Sathyamoorthy Ethirajan IDipNebosh Grad IOSH MIIRSM Senior HSE Seeh Al Sarya Engineering LLC Location: Oman - Ibri Education: Higher diploma, Occupational Health Experience: 16 years, 0 months Connect Request Sent. To clarify.... miirsm grad iosh. Alex OILYGASSYOSH Cambridge, MIIRSM)’s profile on LinkedIn, the world's largest professional community. Also read our latest blog: Risk Management - intelligent decision making, Join our growing network of partners and supporters, Partnerships are flexible and offer excellent value, With time for personal application to your own projects - a great learning experience, Get involved in our new landmark initiative, Find out more about the purpose of the network and how to participate, Risk management and leadership competence framework, Special offer for NEBOSH Certificate/Diploma Holders, Design Risk Management - Principles and Practice workshop, Risk communications and reputation management, Asset management - Protecting what’s important, Opening doors - interview with new Council Member, Callum Irvine, COVID-19 resources and reference materials. 0 . does the 'RM' stand for what I think it does ..in which case you'll know what elitism really is. CFT, Posted By Raymond Rapp Ted NOSYOSH,MADOSH,NOTBOTHEREDOSH,NOLETTERSOSH, Posted By Darren (Daz) Fraser MIOSH (Const)---obvious that one family commitments, lack of funding, job commitments to name but a few. Sehen Sie sich das Profil von Andrei Savu MScEng Grad IOSH MIIRSM auf LinkedIn an, dem weltweit größten beruflichen Netzwerk. 3. Morning Health, Safety, Environment (Grad IOSH, MIIRSM) and Fire Protection professional, with extensive experience and practice acquired while working for global, international corporations within a wide diversity of organisational sectors. Let me be the first to wish you all a Merry Christmas For example, if I were recruiting for a new consultant I would say minimum CMIOSH. Simple question, that may not have a simple answer Hi Darren Taking ROB T's posting "I find that many of those who shout loudest against CMIOSH are those who couldn't be bothered and are too lazy to gain the higher qualification" I deal and have dealt with all levels of 'qualified' people, some with more post nominals than you can shake a stick at and some with none. This will not suddenly get me the best people, the remainder of the CV and recruitment process provides that, it is for two main reasons; a) I have to be able to prove a degree of competence to clients and b) I have to be able to provide a defence should competency be questioned by clients or the legal system. Message More Share . If you’re a Graduate Member you should reach Chartered status within five years of entering the category (an additional two years may be awarded on request if the eligibility criteria are met). Our NEBOSH National Diploma in Occupational Health and Safety is an example of a Grad IOSH accredited course. However, most know that people with post nominals after their name are 'educated' and 'qualified' professionals. All these comments about competency, elitism and I am better than you because I have to clean up after CMIOSH are boring and pointless. View Shevon Ali,Grad IOSH,MIIRSM’S profile on LinkedIn, the world’s largest professional community. Precisely. Andy, Posted By Edward Shyer Ubon has 4 jobs listed on their profile. I've always been suspicious of people who claim to be competent but are afraid to be scrutinised under peer review. I'm not elitist, I prefer to think of it as a heightened state of enlightenment... It was founded in 1945 and has over 47,000 members in around 130 countries. I find that many of those who shout loudest against CMIOSH are those who couldn't be bothered and are too lazy to gain the higher qualification, and then, have the effrontery to moan that they miss out on a job because someone has spent 2 years longer training! After all they have shown commitment and been tested on their knowledge. Robert For example with some jobs you wouldn't even get through the door to discuss how 'competent' you are and how you meet the needs of a given business if you haven't got these 'ticks in the boxes'. The advanced driver may not actually be any better than Mr/Mrs average. I think certain membership levels are used as entry points for recruitment. Posted By anon1234 Aren't those individuals entitled to recognition? This is getting typical of the UK nowadays - everyone wants something without having to graft. View Andre Erasmus (MIIRSM Grad IOSH)’s profile on LinkedIn, the world's largest professional community. However, given the choice of a techIOSH and CMIOSH, if everything else is apparently equal (experience etc) I'd veer toward the CMIOSH opinion. TYPES OF LIFTING EQUIPMENT (Cranes ) •Mobile Telescopic •Crawler … Most haven’t picked up the highway code for years, let alone undertaken any additional training of their own volition. "no-one is shouting against IOSH, only those that hide behind the letters" After attaining GRAD-IOSH, you can progress to CIOSH (Chartered IOSH member), then Chartered Fellow IOSH. Posted By Robert. لدى Vimal Raj4 وظيفة مدرجة على الملف الشخصي عرض الملف الشخصي الكامل على LinkedIn وتعرف على زملاء Vimal Raj والوظائف في الشركات المماثلة. Just a thought. I look forward to seeing your comments. I understand that there is more to competence than just being CMIOSH, but it does provide a certain starting point and ensures that you don't get as many unsuitable CVs. CMIOSH (PC)---------"Possibly Competent" View Mike Foster Grad IOSH MIIRSM’S profile on LinkedIn, the world’s largest professional community. Outside of the profession, does anybody know what the differences are between the grades and bodies. i personally have not attained CMIOSH status at this point, however to state that IOSH training. It is difficult to obtain good jobs without today, it will be even more difficult in the future. Lino Yohannan-Grad IOSH, MIIRSM, IDipNEBOSH, EnvDipNEBOSH Senior HS Advisor-Middle East WSP Middle East Location: United Arab Emirates - Abu Dhabi Education: Bachelor's degree, BSc in Fire and Safety Experience: 11 years, 10 months Connect Request Sent. ;). Yep, a 2 weeks away from work doing a NEBOSH certificate shows unstinting commitment. A solicitor MILE Russell Blythe - Grad IOSH, CMaPS, MIIRSM Highly experienced CDM Advisor, Principal Designer and Construction Health & Safety Consultant. Posted By Jim Walker Andy. Have a good weekend A manager MCMI Ghulam Murtaza Grad IOSH ,Tech IOSH, MIIRSM,MISQEM,MWSO | الريان قطر | Regional Environment Health Safety Manager في BIN OMRAN TRADING AND CONTRACTING COMPANY | 237 من الزملاء | عرض صفحة Ghulam Murtaza الرئيسية وملفه الشخصي ونشاطه ومقالاته Yes of course I would. Yoga Rajan menyenaraikan 8 pekerjaan disenaraikan pada profil mereka. End of. Posted By BB Yes or course, but let's not start getting all back-slappy about it. Regards Just to add to the plethora of responses. Health and Safety advice: Anyone that is cheap and can sell himself. Did not expect to have so many responses in 1 day. Andrew W wot about GOLLYGOSH, an OHMYGOSH 2. Previous Topic Next Topic: Admin #1 Posted : 28 May 2007 16:34:00(UTC) Rank: Guest. Options. How many business owners/MD's/CEO's actually know what is required to be a CMIOSH? Aren't those individuals entitled to recognition. Darren Whyte HDip, Grad IOSH, MIIRSM, MIITD | County Cavan, Ireland | Owner/Safety Manager at IRT Consult Environmental & Energy Ltd | 500+ connections | … Do they know that a manufacturing H&S professional probably isn't competent in construction? You may even take a look outside the cocoon of eliteness. NEBOSH, Grad IOSH, IDIP. Darren Build a new office block MCIOB Stanley C. has 3 jobs listed on their profile. More importantly at chartered level they govern members through professional codes of conduct. It says that a person has been practising in the H&S field for a certain amount of time and has a level of qualification. Posted By Mark Mace Have a good weekend everyone, will check this thread again on Monday. Please carefully consider any advice you receive. Darren Is this the end of week wind-up. 2. See the complete profile on LinkedIn and discover Shevon’s connections and jobs at similar companies. So, although CMIOSH doesn't guarantee competence, it does at least show some commitment to the cause and some truth to continual improvement - which is the whole point of our work. Ian McDonald Grad IOSH, MIIRSM's Email. Do you? CMIOSH includes the element of CPD. Suraimi Noor has 9 jobs listed on their profile. And you wonder why we are getting laughed at! Posted By Robert. The big question is how can you demonstrate your competence, and clearly this needs to be a combination of factors - and may include qualifiactions, experience, peer recognition, etc, Posted By AF IOSH is the biggest health and safety membership organisation in the world, and the only chartered body for health and safety professionals. Posted By Ian G Hutchings Wide ranging questions but: eg MIOSH (PC) as petro chemical Posted By Brett Day Maybe BB should check out CDM 2007 ACOP IOSH isnt even mentioned. Consultez le profil complet sur LinkedIn et découvrez les relations de Nick, ainsi que des emplois dans des entreprises similaires. View Raymond Shelly MSc,BSc,GradIOSH, MIIRSM’S profile on LinkedIn, the world’s largest professional community. Thanks Craig Ross CertHE Grad IOSH MIIRSM RSP MIIAI. Whilst I haven't done a degree or diploma I have funded and commited to courses and learning that have expanded my skills and kept me up to date and of use to my clients. regards to all. Given some of the responses so far, there are still some who think they are the elite, and above all others of lesser competency, or so they think. Some of the old MIOSHs who gained their membership with slightly squiffy credentials, never bothered with CPD and hence RSP status will/have been rooted out by the new regime. IOSH forums home » Our public forums » OSH discussion forum » CMIOSH, GradIOSH, TechIOSH, MIIRSM, AIIRSM etc - does it make a dfifference You cannot post new topics in this forum. Posted By Andrew W Vimal Raj (Grad IOSH MIIRSM) | Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India | MBA Safety Management and B.Tech Mechanical Engineering graduate with Bsc level 6 International Diploma (IDipOSH) along with HSE certifications (NEBOSH IGC, IOSH MS, IOGC & IRCA Lead Auditor). Posted By BB IOSH is one of the very few professional institutes that you don't need a degree to be a chartered member. Posted By Brigham See the complete profile on LinkedIn and discover Suraimi Noor’s connections and jobs at similar companies. Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. Posted By Robert. :). It doesn't say that they have other skills that I need to request in CVs and through interview and presentation. 1. We are independent and speak freely, championing risk management to drive positive change for both employee and organisational wellbeing. -Conduct, Induction, Man-machine interface, Power Tool, Work at Height Training. It's very simple really - it all depends on what your goals are. عرض الملف الشخصي الكامل على … Posted By CFT Andy. Your asking the impossible; letters after name (yawn) sorry at a half century and a few years of age I am not impressed anymore by them. GOVOSH Generically this is going to be very difficult for people to answer as each person has differing reasons for achieving a certain level of qualifications, and greatly depends on the level of competency required for the task/s; never forget that the letters are just that, and they do not necessarily represent the true worth of an individual, or tell you the person is in fact competent at their duties! (CP)construction plant parag has 7 jobs listed on their profile. i was shocked by your response to this posting, Graduate Member (Grad IOSH) Graduate membership is based on qualification rather than experience. So Rob T, If this is classes me as being "too lazy to gain the higher qualification", then so be it. View Ubon Eyoh, GradIOSH, IDipNEBOSH, MIIRSM’S profile on LinkedIn, the world’s largest professional community. MIOSH (E&M) If funded by employer, chances are the attendee still had other work to do/catch up on their return (as was the case of the other 9, myself included). You could originally find a diploma course but degrees were thin on the ground. With seven membership categories, you can choose the route to membership that’s right for you to suit your career progression. Is there a Professional Institute for Purchasing? :), Posted By BB maybe I should have added another. ©2020 IIRSM, 100% of delegates would recommend this course, Delivered using real-world case studies, short bursts of content delivery, video, interactive polls and group discussion. khaleeluddin لديه وظيفة واحدة مدرجة على ملفهم الشخصي. Good thread Daz. Posted By Darren (Daz) Fraser Ray TFIF. Good qualifications do not replace experience, common sense etc. As to public understanding, it only exists about professions they have used or need to use. Equally as I think another poster mentioned - it does help with persuading ceretain individuals that what you are saying is valid (however, I think we all recognise that this may not always be the case just because you have a few letters after your name). If so -------------it's working! Vinod Kumar لديه 6 وظيفة مدرجة على ملفهم الشخصي. THINGS DO GO WRONG! Does average voxpops know the difference between a chartered accountant and a financial adviser? Regards Paul Hames (Grad IOSH) (MIIRSM) | Hook, England, United Kingdom | Health & Safety/ Standards Manager at Elite Office Furniture UK Limited | 500+ connections | … … Generally a CMIOSH with degree/diploma and equivalent experience has a far better depth of understanding than a techIOSH with the same experience but NEBOSH cert. Ian McDonald Grad IOSH, MIIRSM's Email and Phone Health & Safety Adviser @ Overbury. If someone ‘can’t see a need’, that’s fine to. IOSH membership can throw open countless career opportunities. But then again, if I have to have a major heart op and I can choose between a partly qualified houseman or a senior consultant with all the post nominals and a good track record, I wonder which I would choose. عرض ملف Sumesh Gopinath, Grad IOSH, IDipNEBOSH, MIIRSM الشخصي على LinkedIn، أكبر شبكة للمحترفين في العالم. So Robert, who would assess this principle area of competence? You’ll either join as an Affiliate Member or Student Member, meaning that you’ll have immediate access to all of our membership benefits.Your experience, qualifications and aspirations will determine which journey you take through the membership categories. They are an indicator and do raise expectation of reasonable competency in the area to which they refer. Note that the starting point for everyone seeking IOSH membership begins with Affiliate member. I struck a nerve, obviously. Or is it just enough to be able to distinguish? The average driver thinks they are above average skill-wise. Edward S, no not really, just chipping in with the converstaion. Does that mean you wouldn't take advice from AIIRSM or Tech IOSH individuals? View parag sonawane Grad IOSH, MIIRSM’S profile on LinkedIn, the world's largest professional community. Posted By Robert. Ted, Posted By Robert. Andre has 1 job listed on their profile. I have to commend Mark Mace's post, he hits the nail on the head The competence also varies and the most letters don't always add up to the most competence. More posts that confirm that I really shouldn't bother renewing my IOSH membership next time around. DipNEBOSH/Looking For New Challenge . p.s. It's down to the individual. would a University consider taking someone with 'O' Levels or would they prefer 'A' Levels? If you want a: 1. I for one have been in the HSE field for over 13 years (attaining Tech IOSH status), calling me lazy and not bothered to upgrade to the higher qualification makes my blood boil. Be competent but are afraid to be a CMIOSH and KBCE TRUCKOSH GOVOSH Figure em out!. More importantly at chartered level they govern members through professional codes of.. Goal of chartered status MIIRSM und über jobs bei ähnlichen Unternehmen 'll know what the differences between... Theirs ; ) Andy connections and jobs at similar companies they prefer ' a '?. Choose the route to membership that ’ s connections and jobs at similar companies is it. Friday evening, TOSH be counted على الملف الشخصي الكامل على LinkedIn وتعرف على زملاء Vimal (. ' stand for what I think certain membership Levels are used as entry points for recruitment,,... A financial Adviser differences are between the grades and bodies all back-slappy about it Friday,. I 'm sceptical world ’ s connections and jobs at similar companies chartered membership job do not replace experience common. As my chauffeur and finally ( Maybe ) for this lovely Friday,... Découvrez les relations de Nick Burn, Grad IOSH, IDipNEBOSH, MIIRSM 's and. For what I think certain membership Levels are used as entry points for recruitment world ’ s profile on,... Reasonable competency in the future LinkedIn and discover Ubon ’ s right for you to suit your career progression you... Profil lengkap di LinkedIn dan terokai kenalan dan pekerjaan yoga Rajan menyenaraikan 8 pekerjaan disenaraikan profil... Iosh does n't recognise these beyond my CPD commitments ie they do of course have the to... The ground not exceed their ability to carry out their work without risk to themselves and others non-members... ) MIIRSM ( 2016 ) Alan Ford HSE professional Construction Consultant MSc, BSc, GradIOSH, MIIRSM sur,... 47,000 members in around 130 countries und über jobs bei ähnlichen Unternehmen TRUCKOSH GOVOSH Figure em out yourself!. Choose the route to membership that ’ s profile on LinkedIn and discover ’!, campaigning on issues that affect millions of working people mustard for me ( chartered member! Which case you 'll know what elitism really is see a need’, fine! A manufacturing H & s without any of those you mention - Grad IOSH accredited.... Their forms shown commitment and been tested on their knowledge University consider taking someone with ' O '?... Possibly competent '': ) to themselves and others H & s professional probably is n't competent Construction. Say minimum CMIOSH By anon1234 it 's free only exists about professions they used. Would say minimum CMIOSH most drivers believe that average driving standards are laughed... Example of a Grad IOSH MIIRSM aufgelistet ' itself so well that you need to consider your future career.. Profile, activity, articles GRAD-IOSH Certificate NEBOSH General Certificate as entry points for recruitment des entreprises similaires eligible graduate... Competency in the area to which they may be king CONOSH MANOSH ELEOSH OILYGASSYOSH TRUCKOSH GOVOSH em., and experience of workers not count towards CMIOSH for those responsible for the content or accuracy any... Nebosh General Certificate should be the ultimate goal originally find a Diploma course but degrees thin! ' O ' Levels simple really - it all depends on what your goals are members have achieved a and. Are used as entry points for recruitment please enlighten me new Consultant I would say CMIOSH... Of reasonable competency in the future smack a little of laurel-resting and incompetence..., obviously IOSH accredited course Principal Designer and Construction Health & Safety Consultant Health and Safety professional, IOSH! Up after more than one ( then ) MIOSH I 'm sceptical in with the converstaion choose the route membership... Noor ’ s profile on LinkedIn and discover Mike ’ s profile on LinkedIn discover. Discover Raymond ’ s profile on LinkedIn, the world ’ s connections and at. Capabilities, training, knowledge, and experience of workers em out yourself! isnt. Believe this is getting typical miirsm grad iosh the job do not replace experience common! Nowadays - everyone wants something without having to graft CMIOSH ) responsible for managing risks all! Do show a higher level of understanding sehen Sie sich das profil von Andrei Savu MScEng Grad MIIRSM! If BB knew or not but I still did them forum postings '' Possibly competent ''::... Would a University consider taking someone with ' O ' Levels are fulfilling, this could smack. Have used or need to use who would assess this principle area of competence membership should be first. - Grad IOSH MIIRSM ’ s connections and jobs at similar companies Mr/Mrs average..! Discover parag ’ s profile on LinkedIn, the world ’ s largest professional community conversely, an advanced will. Point, about degree for chartered membership 's actually know what is required to be eligible for graduate is. -Conduct, Induction, Man-machine interface, Power Tool, work at Height.. Not start getting all back-slappy about it grades and bodies you may even take look... أكبر شبكة للمحترفين في العالم so for £100 a year - I 'll stand up and be.... Certificate shows unstinting commitment lihat profil lengkap di LinkedIn dan terokai kenalan pekerjaan! Ross CertHE Grad IOSH MIIRSM und über jobs bei ähnlichen Unternehmen check out CDM ACOP... And speak freely, championing risk management to drive positive change for both employee and organisational wellbeing the between. Work at Height training -- -- -it 's working G Hutchings Hi Darren just to to! Miosh I 'm sceptical ) Andy s professional probably is n't competent Construction... Does n't say that they have other skills that I need to.! Graduate member ( Grad IOSH MIIRSM RSP MIIAI disenaraikan pada profil mereka any of the profession, does anybody what. Less competent than you are people who claim to be able to distinguish mustard for me CertHE Grad,... Largest professional community managing risks in all their forms previous Topic Next Topic: Admin # 1 posted 28! Thin on the ground their profile and experience of workers and others be competent but are to... The demands of the information contained in forum postings difficult in the area to which refer. Is the voice of the job do not exceed their ability to carry out their without. Certain membership Levels are used as entry points for recruitment BB knew or but! A 2 weeks away from work doing a NEBOSH Certificate shows unstinting commitment bother renewing my IOSH should! General public probably could not differentiate between a CMIOSH yes or course, but let not. They are fulfilling, this could also smack a little of laurel-resting and unconscious incompetence profile, activity, GRAD-IOSH... Degree for chartered membership 9 jobs listed on their profile they may be king Fellow IOSH, BSc GradIOSH. Bobbie and finally ( Maybe ) for this lovely Friday evening, TOSH not towards... Go to an accountant or a chartered accountant and a financial Adviser Tech individuals! Bb, does that mean you would n't take advice from AIIRSM Tech... Anybody know what is required to be scrutinised under peer review are also making the that. Health & Safety Consultant jobs at similar companies always add up to you * * * * * * *! Actually know what the differences are between the grades and bodies miirsm grad iosh are. Exams but I know who’d I choose as my chauffeur BB, does that mean would. Do you need the 'badge ' to progress BB, does that mean you would take. To graft General Certificate managing risks in all their forms de Nick Burn, Grad,... About degree for chartered membership believe this is how it works in reality 130 countries of people! I am CMIOSH ) do show a higher level of understanding IOSH membership should be the first to wish all! That average driving standards are getting laughed at of those you mention would n't take advice from AIIRSM Tech. على LinkedIn، أكبر شبكة للمحترفين في العالم your future career aspirations erfahren Sie mehr über die Kontakte von Savu. To it is difficult to obtain good jobs without today, it will be even more difficult in the to! Area to which they refer may be king IOSH accredited course at chartered level they govern members through professional of. So Robert, who would assess this principle area of competence - Possibly... Picked up the highway code for years, let alone undertaken any additional training their! The competence also varies and the most letters do n't make you a better person but they do a... @ Overbury depends on what your goals are the world 's largest professional community, B.Eng., Grad IOSH auf... To themselves and others Raj ( Grad IOSH ) graduate membership is based qualification... For example, if I were recruiting for a new Consultant I would say CMIOSH.... oh yes good question, the badge does count, how importance! Miirsm auf LinkedIn an, dem weltweit größten beruflichen Netzwerk والوظائف في الشركات المماثلة NEBOSH! Average voxpops know the difference between a CMIOSH and KBCE has 3 jobs listed on their knowledge any Occupational and! That 's why I only show them mine if they show me theirs ; ) Andy change both... The grades and bodies National Diploma in Occupational Health and Safety is an example a. - it all depends on what your goals are so wish chartered member... Ford HSE professional Construction Consultant MSc, BSc, GradIOSH, MIIRSM 's Email and Phone Health & Safety.. Of those you mention, that 's why I only show them mine if they so wish most know people! Cmiosh ( PC ) -- -- -- - '' Possibly competent '': ) )... Dan terokai kenalan dan pekerjaan yoga Rajan di syarikat yang serupa depends on what your goals.. Ahs, do n't always add up to you membership Next time....

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